Live Session (2026)

Hello and welcome to this second week of the course. Really, really happy that you are all here. Looks like we have basically full house in terms of like what what I would expect to be to people to be here. I think I want to just really before asking questions or before you ask questions, I can also ask questions. Um but It's much more insightful if you ask me questions, I I hope. I just want to show a little bit more about like the canvas stuff and like what you can expect with like the next steps generally. Um so you have seen that like Curse Course Week 2 was like published last week. and that Apparently worked flawlessly and that's awesome. Um and now course week three is going to be published as well. I think this has actually ha already happened. So I always try to like schedule it so it's very parallel with what with what we have. So that's good. And you have the videos and then After we are done, I will basically download the video from Zoom and upload it and also have captions made with the Well a basically computer generated captions, which are not like the best. so if you find issues with them. let me know or you know don't but but if there's anything that's very misunderstandable Um, we get that. Then you will see this live session section in the week two course. and then you can basically click on it and look at the video. Um and then there are also links from this session because we will be talking a little bit about like a few things about WCAG and like Um generally also I will show a little bit of testing and stuff like that and that will be on different links. So Yeah, all the links will be in on this page. And if we add more links, I will add them back and then we can go from there. And you should be able to have everything that we're talking about. Yeah, once once this is over. Um all right. Let's see so You all did your duty and have hopefully w watched the videos that we prepared. Um And yeah, are there any like specific questions you want to ask about the the video or like, you know, is there anything you didn't understand or anything I should be like go more in depth, this would be the time to ask. if not, I'm going in depth anyway.

I have and it might be a stupid question and it might not be relevant here, but I don't see what you have on your screen. All I see, and I don't know if this is true for everyone, but what I see is just one Um like it doesn't even say kush.

If you scroll up, can I just compare Yeah, so you don't see that because like this is our view as administrators. If I go to student view You should see this. You should also see two and three now. and then these are all grayed out.

Okay. Yeah, I think I found the equivalent.

So thank you. Okay, no problem. Like yeah, it's I Honest real talk, as like the young people say, like I I'm not a big fan of the system. Like it's I th I find it very confusing. Um so yeah, but but yeah. Stupid questions. It's like all good. If you have the question, other people also have the question. They don't just don't think of like answering them. No, asking them. I'm I'm the one answering it. I get it wrong all the time today. Alright. So no questions about the videos that you watched? Which is good. that means I must have done like really, really good videos. Well done. Alright. I want to talk a little bit about like, you know, we we did talk about W3C and Way and like all the things but I want like to go through a little bit of the history again but just like also showing because I know that like in the video I do not like in detail show WCAG 1. 0 and I have had questions about like okay was why why w why didn't we continue with this? Like why was this not not good enough. Um and I will also like talk a little bit about WCHEC3. Um there has been a new draft and stuff like that, so that's that's fun Um but basically yeah this is this is how this looks and now it's a superseded recommendation which basically means it used to be a recommendation but WCAC 2 is better so we only super se we superseded it in 2021. So basically until from nineteen ninety nine to twenty twenty one for twenty-two years you could have said like oh we make our stuff accessible to Web Content Accessibility Guideline 1. 0. Why you would want to do that? I don't know. Um because it's I think at least since 2005 or something like that. It was just a terrible fit for a lot of things. Um And if you scroll down, basically section 5 or section 6 is the is where the web content accessibility guidelines start, and then you have like very detailed HTML stuff right like here how I can make my screen a little bit smaller so it is going to show up bigger for you Um it says provide a text equivalent for every non-text element. Like this is in WCAC, like literally that language is almost like that in WCAG too. But then it has like these HTML specific language here, like vi via alt long desk or in element content. This includes images, graphical representations of text, and so on, like animated GIFs of course, ASCII art, and then it says in HTML use the alt for the image input and applet elements. Like nobody uses the applet element anymore. Don't think it even works. Or provide text equivalent in the content of an object in applet element. So it's like very technical, very like, oh, this is how you write code to make stuff accessible. And what they really, really quickly learned is that most people, , you know, especially since like the mid 2000s When like things like social media came up and MySpace and all of these types of platforms, they uploaded images, but they did not write their own HTML. So they needed to say like oh yeah you have to provide alternative text. How you do that doesn't really matter, right? I mean in the end like if you want to have your alternative text show up for screen reader users in the HTML, you want to use the alt attribute. Um in practice. But if you upload something to like Flickr or one of these you know photo sharing sites, you need an input field where you put in the alternative text. And so providing the alternative text is not only a technical thing, you also have to like before in content creation, content editing. think about that and this is something that you see through a lot of the the different things like 1. 2 is provide redundant text links for each active region of a server-side image map. I I think server-side image maps weren't even used when WCHACK 2. 1. 0 was published. Like it was a very old technology, but like they felt like oh we have to include that at priority one Um yeah, then they had a lot of these until user agents sections, which basically means Until browsers can do something, you have to do something as the content creator. Um and WCAG 2. 0 has something that is similar but different So basically they say until user agents can automatically read out text equivalent of a visual track, provide the auditory description of the important information of the visual track. of a multimedia presentation. Like it's also very bad bad language. Not in in in the sense that they are swearing, but in the sense that it's hard to understand. Um, but they basically mean like if you have a video and there's something to see in the video, you need to provide an audio d description. and I think the idea was that Browsers could like analyze the video and create a description automatically, but that never happened. Um and like most videos are way too detailed to make like useful audio descriptions like automatically like even with like modern AI stuff, right? There's so much going on in the screen and you have so little time to actually Give an audio description and we will talk about audio descriptions in a few weeks. Um like it's super difficult to like say, oh, we automate this process Um yeah, so so it's it's really interesting. Um but you see the bones of WCHAC in there. Like there's a lot of stuff that is like very similar in WCHAC 2. 0. Um and when we take a look at Wickhack 3 in a moment, you will see that a lot of that stuff is also in Wickhack 3. And the reason is that the foundational understanding how people with disabilities are using the web is not that different, right? It's not like there's not this like huge change of like everything changing and now I don't know blind people using their screen readers completely different. That's just not what happens. Um and that's something that I try to remind people of like what you are learning with WCAC 2. 0 or 2. 2 at this time You will be able to apply forever. The language might change, the requirements like how you test and how you score and how you do stuff. that will change. But the foundations, the fundamentals of like what people need to interact with technologies will stay the same. Um and I mean there's a lot of talk about like these buzzwords like agentic UI and stuff like that where every user gets their own UI to to interact with but like what Even if that came, and I'm not not sure, , because it feels like like this is the search for a solution for a problem that doesn't exist Like we do have already accessible user interfaces, so we don't need to like on the fly change the user interface and then you come back like two weeks later. and the website or the information has changed and your user interface changes with it, like super disorienting, right? if you think about like how AI genetic user interface changes would work in practice. Yeah, there's no way that like these fundamentals are going to be like overturned overnight. There will be a lot of helpful stuff coming out, but I think we need to see what comes out of the bubble at the end to really determine what's useful for that ride. Um and yeah, and so the the thing is like everything you learn in this course You will need on an ongoing basis until you retire, basically. Like at least if you want to work with accessibility continuously, which I assume you want to do. Um and even when not, like you will be like in these weird , I don't know, buying plane tickets and say like, oh, this is difficult to use, this is an accessibility problem, and then you're cursed like we all are, with the knowledge of like why it's bad and how to fix it, and then you realize you can do nothing about it because like it's not your website and so it's it's a big problem. But yeah, so lots of good stuff in Wickhack 1. 0. Um I I like looking back and I mean it has like very general state states in there, like use markup and style sheets and do so properly. You know, and it has some checkpoints like what does me does it mean to use style sheets and HTML properly, but it's like yeah, the weird like markup lists and list items properly. Um what does that even mean? Like it's n yeah, it's very general and like hand wavy. Um but we also didn't have like a lot of stuff back then. so that's fun. And actually I did fail today. I I reviewed the site and they had lists that weren't nested properly and I'm like, come on This is now when was this written? In 1999, and now we have 2026, so 27 years of accessibility guidelines. and you are still like can't can't nest your lists correctly. You know, I I get angry sometimes, but it's okay. It's okay. We're all in this together. Um And yeah, and then as as I said in in the videos and last week, WCAC 2. 0 2008, this was the real first standard for accessibility that really had like the impact and like got adopted into law. Um CAG One did get adopted into law in a couple of countries, including Germany, but it was always like an interpretation or making it more testable or like just picking like random things. So it ne never was a good situation. But WickHack 2 and especially 2. 1 really got into like a nice sweet spot also between these are the rules that you need to follow. And this is the freedom we give you. Because I think one of the big things that WCAC 2 especially gives you is that you have a lot of freedom of how you make stuff accessible, right? You don't get like, oh, this is the one thing you need to do to make it accessible. No, you can be pretty free but you have to like you know to hit a few goalposts or or check marks or whatever. Um and like yeah a lot of people struggle with that which is also normal But I think it has a really nice weight to it and a really nice balance to what I would like to have there and yeah, that's it's a really really nice standard and WCAC2 has the same Like 2. 0, 2. 1, 2. 2, , and maybe 2. 3 if it comes to that. We don't know yet. Maybe huh. Can we can only hope. Um they all have the same structure. They have their principles, perceivable, operable, understandable, and robust, and then underneath the guidelines and the success criteria. And I talked I know I talked a lot about that in the videos. It's been a long time since I recorded them, but I remember. And it's yeah, it's a lot it's a lot of stuff So this is still a recommendation, so you could say, oh, we follow WCAG 2. 0. But probably laws and policies have something against that. because they have mostly agreed that WCHAC 2. 1 is the thing to follow. And don't worry, it says W3C recommendation and it says May 2025 This is extremely annoying and I get like annoyed about that all the time because they basically have republished it with errata. So that you know you don't need to go to a different page to see the the errata, but if you go into history, so this is where I give you like a little bit of my experience of like like having worked for W3C trying to to to figure out stuff like if you go to history It actually will show you for WCAG 2. 1 all the publications. So you see that it started in 2017 with the first public working draft. This is when the working group goes to the public and says like oh this is what we want to do this is the update and then you get more working drafts with when they're working and then they're saying like hey we made an update And then you get to candidate recommendation snapshot, which basically means, oh, we really want to publish this now. then it goes to proposed recommendation. This is basically when the let me let let me get this right. This process has a little bit changed in while I worked at W3C, but I think the The idea is proposed recommendation is after candidate recommendation, they do all of the like asking security and internationalization and like other people to like Chime in and then they say like okay this candidate has now been reviewed. We propose this for recommendation To the AC, which is the advisory committee of W3C. This is basically where every member of W3C has a vote. and can theoretically block the the standard or like you know say hey we think this is a good standard. Um And only then they vote for it. And so it was published in June 2018. So that's the real date of since when we have WICHEG 2. 1, not May 2025. which is a seven year difference. So yeah it's it's pretty important. Um I wish they put in the header here. they would write somewhere first published 2018 because I think it's very misleading to be to be fair Um yeah, but that's basically what happened. So in 2018, Rickek 2. 1 was published. it was also the same time the European accessibility directive was published, Web Accessibility Directive was published, which is the EU law that means that all public organizations are accessible so your municipality your county website your your you know your country website like all of those things need to be accessible. And that coincided with the release of WCAG 2. 0 in 2018. Which was all very close, like timing-wise and very difficult to manage. Um yeah, I was I was at W3C at that time and it was not like not the most restful time let's say that and then going forward just a little bit we can 2. 2, which is you know interesting because this now has a recommendation date that is earlier than RickHack 2. 1. Like that makes no sense. Um but it just didn't need the the update And the biggest change from Wickec 2. 1 to PicA Mickey 2. 2 is not only the addition. I don't know if I have talked about that much in the video. It's not only the addition of these new success criteria, , which are awesome. Um most are awesome, some are like okay. but But yeah, I I think they're really helpful, especially focus not obscured is nice because before it was technically legal to have something focused and like not show it on screen And now you have to at least show a little bit of it on screen or you have to show everything, depending on you if you want to be double A or AAA compliant. Um and that's awesome. conformant, I should say. then focus appearance unfortunately got bumped to triple A. This used to be a double A criterion. Um and basically the idea is that you have contrast requirements and size requirements for your focus indicator. So if you use the tab key to go through how you show it, that would have like different like size and contrast. requirements. and it got because it is relatively complicated, got bumped to AAA, but it would have been so good. for people with low vision to have this at level double a or single a and I'm I'm really bummed that we don't have it because like come on it's like tangible improvements. Yeah, then you have dragging movement, which basically means if you move something through drag and drop, you also have to provide an alternative you for using with the mouse. or like touchscreen before you only needed to have an alternative using the keyboard which is a is good But if you can't like drag and drop in in in certain ways, then you need to have like arrows or something like that to make that work. yeah, then target size minimum is good. before before we only had like a target size without the minimum, and it was like way too small, so now we have a nice target size minimum. Well the target size should have been bigger and now we have a a smaller one that is better applicable to other things Consistent help and redundant entry, they are pretty basic. Consistent help says when there is a help functionality, it's always at the same place. Which is good and useful and just good web design. So I don't know if you need that in an accessibility standard necessarily. But And I think I have never failed any any like mightily competent website or application for it. Like that's like yeah, feel feels relatively basic, but it's good to have something to point to to say like hey your help is sometimes in the footer and sometimes in the header that's not allowed. I don't know. Redundant entry means you don't have to enter stuff that you have already entered in a process twice. So if you have entered your address for like for billing and then you have a shipping address you can say that you that you can say, oh I've already entered this, use use this other address. Um Solmas has a question, would an upload link work next to upload by drag and drop? Yes, that would be like if you can just do one click to open your window, that's exactly what you want to do. The idea is more like if you have like reordering a list with drag and drop, cur you know, you would need to use like a way to have it to make it work with like your keyboard. So that could be focus and up and down keys. It could be input element with like an order number in it. Um but that didn't help necessarily people who couldn't do the drag and drop with their mouse and couldn't maybe use the keyboard. So that you know Lots of different different people having different needs and you try to to come up with something. Um and so now you could have like little arrows with up and down or something like that. So Um yeah, it's it's a pretty pretty in-depth one, the the dragging movement. and then accessible authentication, awesome thing. We want to people to to have authentication that's accessible so they can actually use stuff. Makes a lot of sense. And this is about like remembering passwords and stuff like that. So you can't like log in just with a password does not cut it so you have to either provide a way to like get a for example get a sign in link sent to you Or the other thing is to support like password managers that can just out autofill the password field. That's also a way to meet this Um and there are two levels. Um and this is my little little contribution to this are the level AA and the level triple A are basically the same, only that in level AA you have object recognition and personal content that you can use as authentication. ways and these are not here and I'm very glad because now they they look basically the same. and before they were d two different different success criteria and and I was like no we have to rewrite this. This is like not good. Um and so I I helped them rewrite that and this is It's basically what I contributed to the standard, which is always weird. And then they also removed success criterion 4. 1. 1 Um in Wickhack 2. 2 because that was always a bad like it wasn't a bad idea, but like in practice since HTML5. This is way too technical, but I will tell it anyway, , because that's what you send up here. Um Since HTML5, we actually have rules. What should happen if the structure of the document is wrong? Like if you have not closed a a certain element or you have an attribute and you missed like quotes somehow or something like that. 2. 1 4. 1. 1 basically said like oh you always have to write correct HTML, like it always has to be like correctly passed. But now that we have these error correction ways and it's always reliable in all browsers how it's passed, , it's not needed anymore because like you will always get like a consistent output. So they removed that thankfully because there was always a lot of like discussions what what this actually would mean. Um and then and this is the reason why this was republished, not in 2025, but like before, , they basically also went into WCHEC 2. 1 and said like Oh basically if you do WCAC two point one for passing this success criterion should be considered as always satisfied for content using HTML and X HTML. So they basically went back and were like Yo yo yo yo, sorry for doing this. you don't you don't need to do this anymore. So that's actually really good. Um they didn't do it for WCAG 2. 0 And I don't understand why. Um, because technically they are supposed all supposed all to be the same standard, but like Yeah, don't don't ask me. Don't add me, bro. As as the people like to say. Yeah. Wic Hack, it's super super interesting. And yeah, I don't know if I have talked about the understanding docs. I will take a drink and then I will be back with you in a second. So The understanding docs are interesting because they are basically the explainer documents behind WCHEC2. And I think I talked about those in the videos. thinking about it and basically you get the better descriptions of what the individual success criteria mean. So you can go through and say like info and relationship You get the in brief at top. Um if you ask me, just skip it, don't read it. Like it's sometimes misleading, it's sometimes very simplified And you can go away from like from it with like the wrong impression. So I would always skip it. Personally, I don't think it adds a lot. Um, because you have the intent at the bottom anyway, but it's a lot like it's always a wall of text, like not not very friendly. Um And so you get the success criterion as it is in WCAC, , and then you get the intent. So why do we have this? Um and this is always like a good thing to read through. I always can like if you say, oh, does this fail this specific specific success criterion or what's what's going on, you know, it's good to go back and say like, oh, what did they all what what did they actually want to do with this Um and then you see if it applies or not, like or if something else applies. So it's pretty good. Um it's pretty it's always w wordy and like you know like here they have like two semicolons in like this really long like the three semicolons how long is the sentence and I just scanned Oh, this is basically a list. This should be a list. Dear Wicak, this is this is bad. Bad authoring. I would open an issue for that. Um it's a good thing you can always give feedback and tell them like, oh, this is this is crap. And then someone usually Patrick Locke will fix it. Yeah, and then you get the benefits, , which is a useful thing. Like it gave it it basically tells you very short, like what people with disabilities like how does it improve like following this Success criteria and how does it improve the life and like interaction with websites, especially for people with disabilities? Um so you know like Info-end relationships, users who are deafblind using a braille display may be unable to access color-dependent information. I don't know that's if that's a benefit. This should be reverted. Oh no, I'm finding all the issues today. Um that's that's what you get. So what what they should say is users who are deafblind using braille refreshable displays. may be able to access information that would otherwise be dependent on color, like because you have the info on the text or on the site instead of just relying on color Which relying on colour is a different success criteria, so I think this is a bad, yeah, it's a bad example. Um, anyway. That's what that's what you get for not reading these usually. But then you get the examples of like what you should be doing, like a form with required fields, a form that uses color to indicate required fields. So we want in text or like with an asterisk or something other than color to also indicate required fields and so on and so forth And then you have techniques. And I think I talked about this as well. Like techniques are basically HTML snippets, HTML examples that go deeper than the examples here. and basically give you HTML, ARIA, general, Techniques. So here is associate labels with form controls. And then you basically get like oh these are all the form controls, which I don't know if why you need that, but don't don't know. But then you see like in the example if you have a label and you can use for first name and then you have an input with ID first name And then these are linked. And so if you click into the input or if you use the tab key or the screen reader to get into the the input field first name, it will read the label which says first name, which is useful, much more useful than when it would say like nothing or like I don't know, something that's wrong. So Very easy technique, very easy to do, but you get these types of examples. Here's a group of radio buttons and so on and so forth forth like it's it's really good. Um I like these examples but you need to know that they are sufficient techniques and advanced techniques. What are they called? Advisory techniques. They are examples. You know, you can do it in A hundred different ways if you know how to do it. If you don't know how to do it, these are really good examples on how to do it. Um yeah, so that's those are the understanding documents. Um yeah, I like I like to go back to them. Like I don't go back to them as much as I did when I started out. Um one of the things that you don't do because like you have like read it like a hundred times. Um yeah and there's a list with all the techniques for Wik 2. 2 and like you go can go by the technology. This is also where the quick reference comes in. Quick reference. I worked on this, so I'm really proud of it Um it's a very, very long, very like with a lot of content HTML file, and it has basically the whole WCAG in there. In a way that you can filter it and share it, , which was always like important to me. and there was a like really bare bones version for BCAC 2. 0 And then RickAct 2. 1 didn't have one. Um and then they hired me to like create this. And then I created this and it's pretty okay And I'm happy with that. Like it's not not the best thing that I've ever d did, but like it's also a lot of work and like trying to get all the different things in there. So one thing that I don't like what is not in there. But I didn't think like that at the time is that the definitions are not in there So non-text content I think is the definition. So in the real WCAG, , let's go to WCAG 2. 2. In the real WCAG Go to one point one point one. Sorry for the scrolling. yes, non-text content is a definition. You can click on it and you know what it is. We don't have that in the how to meet quick reference. Um and I was like, nobody needs this. And I was wrong. Like this should totally get an update with like the definitions in there. But like Um on on the other hand it's also like aimed at different people. So you know it's like yeah you may you make compromises sometimes. Um and then you have the full description in there so you have more of an overview Um and you also have the techniques and failures for every success criterion. So so far it's basically WCAG, right? But then here on the left you can click the filter and you can select the WCAG version if you say like, oh, we're working with like the European Accessibility Act and we want to do WCHEC 2. 1 you can do that. if you say, oh we have done WICHEC 2. 1 and we only want to check WCEG 2. 2, what was added to WCHEC 2. 2. You can also select that here. I think that's a very useful thing to do. And that's why why we have the versions like that. And then you can say, oh, what are we actually looking at? Like what am I testing? Maybe I'm testing videos. It's like that happens. So let's hide everything. And then say oh we want to have everything that has the video tag. Oh I think I would need to like select the the individual like things. I forgot how my tool works. So you select video and now you have all the success criteria that apply to video in there and everything that does not apply to video is grayed out and hidden. Then you say, oh my video also has sound in it. So you go up and you say audio And now it shows everything that applies to audio and video. And you can basically say, okay, how do I test those? And then you can like go through the individual success criteria. Now, most of the time you don't need to test for AAA criteria, so you scroll down further and you say, oh, WCAC3 criteria, I don't need those, and boom, they're gone. I make this sound like it's like an engineering marvel, but it's like yeah, it's just like some HTML and some CSS. Um let's not let's not kid in ourselves. And then you go like if you see in techniques and failures like there is this is a bad example. Let's go into this a good example. Yes. Here there's smile techniques, which smile is basically a way to make animation using a language that is HTML-like And nobody is using that. I learned it in university. Um, I knew HTML long before I attended university. I had never heard about Smile. I bought a book. And I read that book and I was like, yeah, nobody's going to use that ever. Um, we do have Flash, which like most of you don't remember anymore. But like that was basically what came before Flash. So for those who remember you remember so not super useful generally so I would just uncheck the smile techniques And then they are they are gone from the list. I can say, oh, I also don't work in PDFs, because why would you? And you uncheck that and then like for the applicable examples, techniques, you will not see the PDF examples as well. So it's it's very useful for just narrowing it down like, oh what do I need to know about the success criteria Yeah. Um any questions so far? No, have I steamroll at you a little bit? That is usually my my way to do this stuff. Um what is interesting here is you can collapse all sections of course and expand everything, but you can also use this share button. And I'm very proud of this, because of course I am. I'm a nerd. When you click it, you get the URL to exactly that view that you have filtered and tag and like select the levels for. So if I copy this You have all the like things you have smile and PDF hidden and then you can just send that to your colleague and they will see the same thing as you. And that's super useful I see there's hand up. Camilla, do I see that correctly?

Yes. Um I'm I know this is your baby, Eric. So of course you're gonna say yes. But is this the the document like if if I'm going to like reference we are cutting it we a cag in the future Is this the place to do it? Is this the tool I need to use? Is this my go-to tool or is this something else? Oh I mean I'm and I'm I'm I work with UX design mostly, so.

Yes and no. So yeah, that's always a diplomatic answer. But the the reality is if you want to say let let's say you do UX design and you say like oh we are building this accordion or this like card then you probably need to like look at multiple success criteria right and then you can filter them and put that into your your your document where you say like oh these are the things that we need to think about. For that, I think this is the right tool. If you refer to individual success criteria, I would always refer to the main document. Okay. Okay. Thank you. That's my general vibe. I mean, it doesn't doesn't hurt like there are links to to everything. here and you can also like share here and like it's a lot of things. But but yeah I think if you have like specific things because it has the the definitions and stuff in there, the glossary, I think linking there or to the understanding can be useful. Understanding can be a little bit sketchy when People have no idea about accessibility at all because it's super easy to like concentrate on everything but the actual wording in the success criterion and then you get like you just jump over like the important information and get like sidetracked into like oh this is also something I need to think about and this is what I think need to think about and that can be a little bit dangerous. Okay, thank you. No worries. All right. what do I what else do I have? yeah, the AEM, I will talk about that later. Um yeah, I want to talk about this like blog post and paper and stuff from DQ, which came out a couple of years ago. 2018. Yeah, just you know, just around the corner. Oh, this is a long time ago. Darn it I feel so old now. Um but but it's it's actually a very interesting blog post and it's The headline is Ali Wars, which I don't I don't I don't like the wording. The accessibility interpretation problem. And so as I said, like WCAC has a lot of ways to achieve a goal. So you will always have these like in-between things where you go like One person will say this is done enough, and another person will say this is just not enough to meet the WCHEC success criterion. I personally think that's a strength Because it gives you more applicability over the line. It doesn't actually matter if I disagree with like Glenda, who has written this this article here or not, as long as my standard, like my how I measure it, is consistent. And I'm I'm happy like when clients say like, oh, do you really think this is an issue? You know, I'm happy to discuss that with them That's the other thing, you know, or if they say like, you know, have have you not been strong enough with us? That has never happened. Um But like yeah, that you have this so so some people think this is a problem. I think it's more of like an opportunity, like giving people who are experts and can read between these like Clear things can give a little bit more wiggle room of like how to interpret things and get stuff like Um yeah, just have have like a better better solution for some clients. So I think I think it's an interesting question. I don't know if like if it's really a problem. And they are talking about this, they call it the accessibility piece model. I'm sure FIFA is going to give them like a a peace prize at some point. Um that was probably not not needed. Um but yeah so so yeah there's Th they they say like there are different equally valid ways to use Wickeck 2. 0 and I I agree. Um so yes, very flashy title and then they basically immediately say like yeah yeah yeah it's not that big of a problem so that's good and they basically then say like okay there are people and this is this is honestly also what I have experienced that go a minimum route that basically say like oh if you are not clearly in violation of a success criterion I will value it as like past which is not how I like to do it. Um then there are people who do it optimized. That's I think where I fall. That's basically saying, oh you need to like you need to follow the letter of the law. And we were very strict about it. But like if if there's like doubt or like if there's like the benefit that I can give you, like I'm happy to give that You know, in certain situations and in certain situations I'm a little bit more strict. Um just so you know where it like Just and and the goal for me at least is always to make the most accessible product in the circumstances. This is also something nobody talks about Now I'm now I'm sounding like someone who has like a big weaker conspiracy, but that's not true. Um we're just like, you know, we n we all as accessibility experts. know that this is true inherently so we don't talk about it but people new to this don't know that this is what we know. And so it's like it's it's a weird thing. But in a in essence like there's always this like what can a client what can you actually expect from a client to do For some clients that already have a pretty good product, and where I see that they have like people who are very good at accessibility or like have a very good foundation, I'm pushing them more towards being more accessible, right? Because they already have like a lot of good stuff. So I think they should be even better. Um for people who have like No budget, only come to us because of like oh we don't have to do this because of laws. Um I will be very strict, but I also will be like, okay, this is the quickest way to get to compliance Because the quicker they get their stuff fixed, the quicker it will be better for people with disabilities. That's just a realization, right? I could push them to best practices. I could push them to like rewrite their entire app, but it would take like six months instead of like four weeks And that's not useful, right? So yeah, so that's what I think is optimized. And then there's idealized, which I think is not a good good way to do because it leads to these delays. And that's basically saying like, oh no, everything you did is wrong. it would be so much better if you just did everything new and if you now you know make the best text alternatives that you can do and like Make sure that every link in every situation is self-explanatory and like do like a lot of m that goes over like the core of WCAG and what is required. Um and I think that's that's no way to live because you will only get like frustrated as a tester. Because like everything will be not too up to your standard, which it isn't anyway, if you do accessibility testing. But if you think people should be so much better than their capabilities They will never reach the level that you give them and that will frustrate them and that will frustrate you and that will frustrate everyone and then you all burn out. And then nobody is helped. So I don't I don't recommend that to do. But yeah, it's it's an interesting article. So I would And I said the the links are inside of the canvas. Really, really recommend reading through it and getting a feel for it. There's also a paper for whatever reason. because today and by today I mean twenty eighteen you can't just publish a blog post without also writing a paper, it feels So so they did that. and it's really interesting. Like, you know, I wouldn't bring it up if I d didn't think like it's something that if you get into like the WCAG testing side of things shouldn't be talking about. All right, that was a lot of like theory stuff. I would say we're doing a break until let's say 1410 and then we'll come back and then we do a little bit more interactive like stuff where show you some testing and how I do it and like you know getting into like making those accessibility theory things making them more practical. Alright, see you in 10. Okay. There we are and I will also share my screen again. Could have done this before, but like it's too professional. da share, there we go I will share the other window. So this is something you will see me use a lot over the course. it's called So first the thing that I'm using, the browser that I'm using is called PolyPane. It's a web developer browser basically. Helps you to do like responsive design and stuff like that. really useful. It's a paid product. If you come from me, you tell them ah you get a good deal. For sure. But it's it's basically what I use mainly for for testing. Everything you do testing, and we will look at some of these things in the future and during like the next couple of weeks. There are free tool alternatives for it. But for this initial thing, I'm I'm using this because I think has a a lot of really good simple tools to to show. So this is the before and after demonstration. This is the first project I ever worked with at W3C And as you can see, like this looks relatively old because it is. It was published in 2012. Um, which means I worked on this in 2010 when I was like just just a small little boy doing doing things. What are you going to say? Um yeah, but no yeah, this this was my gateway truck. Um but ba basically what what happened is I lived in Vienna at the time as a student. I was not a very good student, so I did a lot of like extracurricular stuff as as you do And one of the things that I organized in Vienna was a meetup for basically web standards people called Webmontag, so Web Monday. Um and and the idea was that people would do web stuff, Web 2. 0 stuff back in the day, that was 2007 six, two thousand seven. Could meet and like talk about stuff and like, you know, get Get input from other people and you know a lot of hobbyists and stuff like that, like me. Um, and one day we met in this seller club there was like a hackerspace thing called MetaLab in in Vienna it still exists and so you had to go down steps and stuff And one day this was all organized in a wiki because it was the 20 like mid-20 odds. Someone signed up and the name just said Shadi Abu Zara. I didn't know who that was, , but I googled and turns out Shari Abuzara was at the time and basically almost all the time that I worked for W3C, which was way later, , was d part of W3C in the Web Accessibility Initiative. And he was like, oh, they do web stuff, I should go there What I didn't know, , but he did, I'm pretty sure, is that he is a wheelchair user. So he came there and stood in front of the thing and he was like Um yeah, I I need access to this. And I'm like, oh shoot, I haven't thought of this. This was before I was like full in accessibility. I was just doing like web stuff and accessibility was always important, but like an also thing that I did. Um very important also thing, but like not like as front of my mind as it would have been like just a few years later and so he was like yeah I need access and then so so we basically carried him down the stairs which was like On the one you know, he's a good sport and you know, I l I like him dearly. He's like one of my b best friends in in in the space. But like it was like very embarrassing. Um but it also was like Super cool to have someone from W3 in C in there. And so he basically asked me a couple of years later if I didn't want to contribute to this. And I said, of course, yes. And then like that the rest is history. But that's how I got into W3C things. So if you think people just going to ask you to do stuff, that's not going to happen. Like try to Like if you if you want me to give you like how to get into working with W3C, the first thing that I'm gonna say to you is like don't it's a lot of work and you don't get paid or anything for it. Um unless your employer is a member, then like this is a whole different thing. But the other thing is like if you really want to, there are now community groups and ways to like engage with that community it can be very rewarding like I always found it found it pretty great. Um yeah and then they also gave me a job for a couple of years so that was also nice. Um but yeah this was the first thing I worked on. It's it has a WicCAC 2. 0 on there this was in 2010 when I worked on it, but the bones, the actual pages on this page that we're going to look at. They are from 2005. So they are 20 years old and they look like it. And the technology they use looks like it. So this will be like really weird for all you young people that are younger than this project. Um and also for all people who have all long forgotten like all those tech techniques that are used. But it's a great showcase. Um and they should update it, but yeah they haven't. Like this is the website. Woo! Um like this yeah Um so basically what you have is this meta navigation at the top and then this is basically the de the actual demo part of the of the site and it's basically like oh we have a site like a tourism news site for for this town for the city and this site is called City Lights. and has some news on the t front and you know concerts and like You can buy tickets and do a survey, stuff like that. Um and for each page, like this the homepage, obviously. who who would have not seen that. there is the accessible version and then there's an inaccessible version. And this is where the fun begins, because you can actually test this for accessibility Find all the issues and then look at the accessible version and see how you would have made it accessible fifteen years ago. Just like not no not not like the most representative thing, but at least it gives you like the the basics there. Um and there is also a report here. where you can see like which success criteria are met and which are failed. So this is this is pretty useful just to get like a good feel for accessibility. It has this these beautiful like 2010 icons that like just like re really nostalgia in there but like it's pretty actually pretty deep for for what it is and when it came from. This is obviously the report for the accessible version is all like check marks, which like that's good. And then if you are on the homepage like this is the inaccessible homepage, you can click show annotations. And like this used to be all the rage in 2010 when we did this. or 2012 and came out because you had these like things that you can hover over and you can see like where the issue is. And then you can click it and it gives you a dialogue with the information. How cool is that? Well, it was cool in 2010. Now you have anchor. Positioning and like d native HTML dialogues and everything is super easy, but this is like this is hard mode so and and actually I did the navigation here at the top, which I'm still pretty, pretty proud of because I think it's very intuitive. I think it's pretty intuitive. Um and there's Will Coffears who is now working for DQ. did this this hover thing and I was always like, boy man, you are doing magic here. Um so yeah that's that's So we were so young. Um But you have things like here for which points at this brain. Um these lines could be could be thicker, but you know, whatever. Um They are are basically images that only have a background image and so don't have alternative text, for example, right? So they give you that and then you can go to the accessible homepage and show the annotations, which they stay shown. if you if you have that and then you can click it and then it shows like oh this image use uses a null alt because it's not actual content So it's a very very good way to like compare these by yeah bisection and and and make sure to to have them so that's why love show showing this because we don't have anything like this anywhere else. I mean there are there are a couple of things. Like there is a university example that is like newer. I think that's from the early 2020s. Um but it's like Nothing is as well thought out as this. Um and I might just say that because I worked on it. Um for real. Um but yeah, you have also have the old nostalgic web access Initiative logo. Um great. And so now how would I go testing something like this? Let's go to the inaccessible one And one of the things that you always need to test is of course images. And for images, there are a couple of ways to do it. And the easiest way is to have a tool that does it for you. browser there is an images outline tool which gives you all the images but they're also and I will just show it in a second There are also book marklets that you can use. Bookmarklets are little snippets of JavaScript that you can drag into your favorites bar and then you can execute them right from there. And it's really useful. So here I'm gonna scan all the images and of course here at the top like the W3C and the WAY logo they are all good. but then like if we go into these details here into the page, there's a little one like ten by ten icon there. And then there is this image there in the background and doesn't have an alt text. You can show issues here as well, then it's much clearer. and then here at the at the corner there's another 10x10. Why do we have these images? Because back in 20 Well 2005, but even in 2010, we didn't have box shadow. So if you wanted to have shadows in your in your content, you needed to have little images that you tie it behind that looked like shadows. This is what we used to do for living people. Like now now I feel really old. What are you doing with me? Um But yeah, that that's what you did. Um and also like this is a table, like this as I said, like very old techniques. Um so this is a table. Basically you have one corner like one one side of the table with the corner piece, then you have the repeated image with the basically top shadow piece, and then you have another corner piece with the next corner and then you have on on the side you also have those. Um and so if they don't have alternative text it will read the image name to screen reader so it will say border left top give at first it's not a border it's a shadow so it's already like way off but also like No blind person is interested in your shadow image, so this is purely for decoration, right? So we want to have an empty alternative text in there Um yeah, but that's what we used to do. Pretty fun stuff. And then we have here the image for the main city thing. Like Today you also could do most of this with CSS. Um, I don't know if you would want to do like the City Lights. Um logo? Very generous. as as like an image and then like your access to the city could easily be a web font you know making making that nice it doesn't really need to be it's also fine like this but the alternative text is red dot with a white letter C that symbolizes a moon crescent as well as the sun. It's great great imagery already. The logo is followed by a black banner that says City Lights Which is the name of this online portal. Finally, the slogan of the portal, your access to the city, follows in a talk voice green handwriting style and with the slides land. across the top banner. Like yeah, that's exactly what your screen reader user needs to know. Like just just put city lights in there or something like that. Um yeah, but this these things I don't think we find them as much as we did back in the day. but it was like There were people who were like really, oh, everything needs to be described in minutiae detail to be accessible, which is not true. Um, you know, this just goes to the homepage. You want to have like a really quick link and at least start with like city lights, your access to the city homepage and then you can yeah then you can write whatever you want your user will have navigated away a long time ago Yeah, then we have this little content image with which has no alternative text. because I don't know why it wasn't integrated in in this image. And we have like here the the sun weather report and then like the the image goes further, like everything that is like even borders Here and I think that's more like a 2005 thing because we had pretty good border support in 2010, 2012. Um but everything that is like a border or a separator or anything like that has like is is is like its own image. Like here, the the home and news. Like these look so bad and pixely because like they are bad and pixely images. but this was the only way to like do that and have them like, you know, look okay next to like the icon and stuff like that because positioning stuff was really hard and so people did just put a lot of stuff into images Um and they often didn't have like any alternative text. Um and this doesn't have alternative text anywhere like Apart from of course where it should be, like the small link. That does not have an has an empty alt text, so it's not red, and you just get to a link that says nothing. It's not good. Um, so yeah, so differ different things in there. But like yeah, it's it's really fun. and like these tools that just show you the issues and and list the images and show you what the alternative text is hundreds maybe thousands that you can use. Um yes, we we we ha I think we have a list somewhere that we that we're going to publish. good question. list of audit tools. I also have on my long list of blog posts blog posts where I where I want to outline some of those. so yeah I I'm s surely getting that to you all. Um Yeah, so this is this is fun. And then you can of course like there is the X tool, which like probably most of you have hers heard of if you are in accessible into accessibility. This is DQs automated accessibility tool. It's specifically specifically guided, like you heard, accessibility more stuff. So this is ex explicitly so Dialed in that it only shows if you check off include best practices, it will only show real errors like This is surely an arrow. So you will not get false positives like oh the or false negatives, whatever it is Like you don't you don't want it to show an accessibility error if it isn't one. So so if you uncheck best practices, which you always should do, I hate their best practices, not a big fan. Um Because they are sometimes just opinions. And then you click analyze, you see that oh 33 elements need to have alternative text. and this looks a little bit different on in the official like X what is it called? A plug-in. But yeah, it's it's the same text, the same stuff. And then you see the image here as well, and you get these explanations, , and that's really useful. The only thing that doesn't do is like to show the image, but it will like if you hover over it and this is the same in the official plugin, it will show you like what it is. So it's useful Then the select element needs to have an accessible name, can see that here, or pick like you can pick different services, it doesn't show up because of like I don't know what the bug is, but it basically opens the drop-down somewhere else and not in inside of the window. And color contrast where it can be automatically detected. So that is there, , and then language attribute Which honestly this probably just should have because it's like because of this at the top. I don't know why they didn't put that. And then also like links need to have text. Like this home has no alternative text, so you don't actually know that that link goes to home when you focus on it Yeah. And so yeah, l lots of tools, lots of different views to do this. Like There is for let's say for the quick menu thing, there is a forms tool here. and you can Reload and will say no forms found because this is not inside of a form. That makes sense. And then you can do things like focus order, where it basically shows you where if you use the tab key you go through like these links and then also here at the bottom And this also works in modern browsers, but these links here, they have on focus blur. which used to like the second you focus the link would remove the focus from the whole site. Now we would say who is going to do that? Like it's additional stuff. But because people did put did not like that there was like a dotted line around focused elements And when you clicked something, it took the dotted line. They were like, oh, how can we fix that dotted line? And they just blurred it. And so every s keyboard user would get to the home key, home button, and immediately would go away. And so they could not move forward. Somas

Um yes, I kind of missed the step when you got into this side panel. It's a browser thing, no?

Yes, this is in in this case it's in the browser. It's called panel, I think. just in in in Polypain. And it has like under info and outline, it has these different tools that you can use. Some of those tools browser HolyPay. It's called HolyPane. app

Is that a preferred website for accessibility testing or do we have equivalents in other types of browsers as well?

This is what I prefer to use. Um there are equivalents in other browsers as as well. Like this is Accessibility testing is something that uses where everyone finds their prefer to. This is this is usually how I tell I teach it and how I encourage people to do it because as individual, as accessibility is I think accessibility testing and what works for you is different. Like some people that I work with really prefer using screen readers and other assistive technology to test. I can't. Like I think it's super slow. But my brain also like interprets stuff like a screen reader immediately, like a lot of the time, because I have so much experience. Um people starting out new don't have that. I totally understand. and makes a lot of sense to like use screen readers, get acquainted with like how they work. But I think for like day-to-day testing, , I mean, let's say we go back here, I have the images, right? Like yeah, I could use a screen reader and say like, oh, or like this image and this image and this image and this image, they all get like announced wrongly. But it would take me so much more time than just scrolling through a list and saying like, oh yeah, there are a lot of issues and then like reporting them. So that's Just how to do it. And I I do test some functionality with screen readers as well.

So basically to sum it up, make sure I understand. So polypain is a browser you can go into any website from it open the side panel and do what you're doing basically correct okay correct and has has a lot of nerdy

features and like one of the the biggest things that I use like let's say I do an accessibility audit of this site and I say like this homepage image does not have an alternative text, you can go so first I can just look here, but then I can also do a right-click and inspect element, which you can do in every browser. But then this has here at the bottom like additional information like for text elements which this is not but let's just pretend it gives you like the contrast ratio with it automatically and you can do things like just creating a screenshot by clicking on this and then dragging that into your report. So you don't have to like, you know, first find a screenshot to make the screenshot, cre get that into the report and stuff like that. So It makes stuff like that easier and that's why I give them a lot of suggestions for how to make accessibility stuff better, and they do Kilian is is really really good here, but here you also see like a lot of table rows and stuff like that, like a table row for just just for the dash here in in between What we did in the two thousands to make it work is is amazing. So that's poly pain. Um Yeah, let's let's talk a little bit about testing tools because I think it's important. I will go back to my other browser. To do that. I would just share both. I think I can do that. Yeah. Ooh, two browsers at once. I've always been a multi-browser person, so so that's what I do. So What you can do is you can go to a site that I recommend, which is ali-tools. com. I will put that into the chat as well. And I will talk a little bit about Lighthouse in a second as well. Because I saw the comment. So This is a great collection of tools that you can use. And here at the top it has Ali Audit Bookmarklets. This is the place you want to go for stuff to test. Put that link, direct link also in the chat. And basically what this does, it has a lot of the functionality that is built into PolyPane that you can use in other browsers. So what you want to do is you want to have your favorite spa out. Show bookmark spar. So this here at the top, this is the bookmarks bar. Don't need that anymore. Um, and then And you do that by using view in any browser that you have, and sometimes it's called favorites bar. Favorites bookmarks, same thing. And then you can add those two favorites. So let's say we want to think about images. Then you can scroll down to images. There is an images tool. Where's the images tool? I have not scrolled to these in a long time. Images. No, that's not what I want. List images. There we go. Now you can get more information, which is not there's not a lot of information there, but this bookmarker like this here is the link. So you click on that and you drag it with your mouse to the bookmarks bar. And now you have this bookmarklet over here And if you hover over it, it will show like a lot of gliber gibberish of like, oh, this is JavaScript that gets run. Now you can go to any page, for example the before and after demo page and the homepage here And you can click this and it will run the JavaScript on this page. So in this case you click it and it has opened a new window, which I need to share. there it is. So it opens this new window And now you have basically the same view as we had in PolyPane before. Like this is basically the list of all the images, and then here the accessible name or the alt text. depending and then you have notes and you can highlight it on the page. And this works in any browser. In your Safari, it works on your in your edge and your chrome, whatever. Doesn't doesn't really matter. As I just showed, it works works in Vivaldi too. Which is my currently favorite Chromium to use. And yeah, and then you have like definite definite issue found with this image. Image has no alt attribute. And then you can even like show the the code which is nice and you can decrapulate the code which is a nice feature when you have like really bad code it like reformats it and makes it makes it really nice And then you can show it on the page. Like I clicked show here and it has recolored this icon and then it made it bigger for some reason. I don't know what happened there. can also show only images that may be issues. So yeah, so that that is very helpful to see. What's going on? Like here, I've highlighted this. Yeah, and that's completely free and you can use it in any browser. I really like those I think they're useful if you're only doing it occasionally or if you say like oh I don't need like a full stack process for stuff. I just need like I know Our website is always good, but you know, I want to like check if our editors have actually set alternative texts properly. And so this bookmarket is all you need, right? There's not a lot you you need to do. But there there are other things on there as well Like a list of links. I have talked about that like the links are really bad on the before and after demo page, so I dragged it up again And then I go back to the before and after demo page. I click list links. It opens another window which I have to share. Otherwise you can't see it. Oh, and I would unshare the the images thing and then you see like skip to accessible inaccessible demo page which is a skip link so that's okay and then you have the HTML logo Which like might have a little bit of a problem. Oh well it was twelve 2010. We weren't like that sad that this would be a problem and I don't think it is Um and then you see like here starts the the actual code of the website and again you have like news Oh no, this is this is where the actual code starts. Here's the red dot with the letter C. And then here you have the image link and it's an empty link because the image is missing alternative text content. So you already know that you see where it links to, which is not too useful here because it's all JavaScript. Which was outlawed for a long time, completely JavaScript, but we don't we learned better. And then you can again click on show and it will highlight the link here, which has a f a funny form, which is fun. But yeah, so you can like make really good use of these types of bookmarklets. And and yeah, I talked a little bit about accessible inaccessible examples of modern sites not as well documented or as good there is a university one and I need to like look up where that is. It's unfortunately not very intuitive of where it is I guess most people would say like the before and after demo is also not very intuitive where it is. But I will look that up and and put that into the links after the after this So yeah, but these bookmarklets are amazing. Ian Lloyd is a fantastic person doing all kinds of things. But you basically have to install them like manually. for each. I think he has a downloadable version of all the bookmarklets that you can that you can import, but I don't know where that is. So you're gonna figure that out in your own time. But it's it's it's very useful, including things like show focused element, like this is one thing that we often do. Um I think it's good to to show here we go. When you use the tap key to go through the page. The optimal thing that you want is that you can see every individual link that is highlighted, right? Like tickets is very clearly the thing that I'm focusing on right now Um the thing is when websites are bad, that often doesn't really happen. Like this is already like Vivaldi and other Chromium users, Chromium browsers. are doing a very good job with like showing the focus but even here now we don't know where it is. and What we could do in practice is to say like, oh, we can't actually operate the site with the keyboard, it's inaccessible, fix it first, and then we can test further. But that would make everything more complicated. So what we do is we fix it for us and then tell the client to fix it, but we can in the meantime test it more. So if you click show focused, what was it called? focused element. Um oh no weird. Um Well, I should reload just to clear out the other annotations, but now I click show focused element and now it gives me like a little like overlay It shows the accessible name, which is useful. But also like when I come here into the places where I can't see my focus. It actually doesn't do anything. That's not what I wanted to show. So here it is back. I don't know why it's not there probably something because it's so old. Um but yeah usually you would see like even in things where you can't actually see the focus style. You should see that. And if I go quickly back to PolyPane, PolyPane has the same thing here under debug tools and track focus. So it's named a little bit different. And then you can see it gives it like this yellow glow. Um, and you can go through it and here Oh yeah, here you see it on the left, but it's very small. Yeah, this is Oh, it's because the on blur. Ha! This is because it blurs the lines. it it goes away. Ah, but modern browsers actually remember where you have been. So it's not an accessibility problem anymore, apart from like you can't see where you are. Because usually it should look like this There we go, quick menu, news ticket survey. So you really see very nicely where it is. Yeah, but if there's an on-blur on it, it can't. It it doesn't stay there, basically. It doesn't stay focused. So the the design can't go through all right, I want to say something about Lighthouse in Chrome. So Lighthouse in Chrome is difficult because it gives you this absolute number and you know somehow conveys that like if you go to a hundred you're accessible. That's not true. Um there's a a big there's a good article by Matthias Matuzovic Matuso. org. at Um and it's actually like a hundred percent what the hell is it called? People should have searches on their sites. So he has basically a web page that has a hundred percent lighthouse score, but is not accessible. Um and I will put the link into into the links on Canvas as well. Um Now you would say, like, okay, what what is this actually measuring? And basically what Lighthouse does, it just takes the X rules, like the core X rules, not the best practices, and that is all it tests. And automated testing like that can do around 30 to 50% of all issues depending on like what your site is and what's happening. So it will never be Accessible if you use it. It's a good tool to say, like, oh, we are at 100%, and we want to track if there are errors like introduced and goes underneath a hundred percent. Um but like you're not done when it reaches a hundred percent and like you can't really know where you are even if you have a hundred percent in lighthouse. Like If you have that, you can be very confident that you have picked up all the low-hanging fruit, which is already awesome and like a lot of lot of people don't do that. Um but like in in reality like it's a very coarse, very not detailed assessment of like if your if your site is accessible Unfortunately. But like there's also nothing they can do to make it better. Um, just like marketing-wise. difficult because like they basically say like hey you hit a hundred percent and you're great at accessibility and that's not not a hundred percent true Yeah. Any other questions around this? And we will go into these tools and how to test and stuff a lot over the next couple of weeks like there's like basically this is only like the foundation and I know it's a lot and I'm sorry. Um but but yeah there's we're going into details and like how to test and how to like make the distinction between okay is this enough is this good or do I want more all over the next couple of weeks like we have a whole session on images, we have a whole session on videos, we have a whole session on content and how to structure it and stuff like that. And you will see that like What we did today, we're gonna repeat and like see from different an angels. No, from different angles. You probably also will see angels if I'm talking so much. I try to talk less over the next couple of weeks Um but like you will see different angles on like how how this works together and then at the end I hope you have like a 3D picture of the whole thing. That's the goal. Um yeah. , and now I've talked enough under questions. So yeah, I I should say I try to publish the video recording and the transcript. and the the links the same day, Tuesdays, sometimes depending on if I have meetings or if a lot of you book like individual tutoring, which never happens in the first week. I'm I'm not not sad about it. Um depending on how that works, it might be early on Wednesday. Just FYI. But you know we try our best. But don't get you know we don't forget about you. All right, questions, last chance going

No questions, but I I wanted to thank you. I'm a developer and it was very useful information. I got insights for me.

Awesome. That's good to hear. That's good to hear. Yeah, and if you have any other questions, you know, bring them up in Slack or like book the individual tutoring. Um, you know, happy to look at individual stuff, you know. help you with your thoughts on accessibility and stuff like that. That's what we why we have them. And yeah, thank you everyone for being here and have a good rest of your day and take good care Stay healthy. Bye. Thank you, you too.

Bye.